Comments on: Smacking: It’s A Mug’s Game

By: Angry Dad

Angry Dad — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 05:49:39 +0000

You have a good point Katrina. Its ALL about conformity these days.
One ep of Idol shows you that. Bland, average cover music inexpertly played and pushed out to promote record company profits.
Which is exactly what I think about the Wiggles. Who I find relentlessly DULL!!! You can read about it in my next blog which will be published tomorrow (Thursday the 27th) morning.
Thanks for ur comments btw. I really appreciate them.

By: Katrina Roe

Katrina Roe — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:33:21 +0000

Hmm… very interesting Angry Dad. Maybe these advanced complicated societies have unrealistic expectations of their children and therefore require stern discipline to promote conformity. Roman Society certainly had it’s fair share of violence to prop up their version of democracy. But we don’t need to feed Christians to the Lions to pacify our citizens, we have Big Brother and Australian Idol instead.

By: Angry Dad

Angry Dad — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:26:10 +0000

Katrina and Mike I really like what you have to say. Its made me think. There are some pretty big issues raised… Mike worries about child rearing through the generations and makes a great point about history and context. Kate does the same. Basically I agree with Kate.
I too am anti-smacking from a human dignity point of view. And from a purely practical point of view too. Smacking your child does not teach your child anything – except fear of physical violence. (The same goes for silly punishments at school – which are far from educational and do not have any impact in the long term – I think the rule at school should be that any punishment must be educational). It’s a long way from encouraging your child to be a better person. Kate is bang on I reckon. The real question is discipline and teaching your child to learn how to control his or her self in social situations. It’s not about expiation for bad behaviour.

Kate? I’m going to write about “naughty chair” and “time out” in an up coming blog. Needless to say I hate both of these current fashions.
And they are increasingly being questioned…

Mike? I have a slightly different view from you on the history. Or maybe not? One things for sure, we haven’t always beat the hell out of our kids. Discipline, particularly in tribal societies has for a very long period been exceedingly gentle. The general approach for a great many tribal groups has been solicitous to say the least. It’s pretty fair to say that most people would think that Australian Aborigines or Native Americans were way too soft on their kids and “spoilt” them. (I dislike that word – spoilt). Many native American Chiefs thought the “white man” barbarous for beating their children. The sociologist Emile Durkheim examined 104 primitive societies and found that more often than not the discipline was far from harsh. His most important finding was that stern discipline was a feature of more advanced and complicated societies. Its possible that we are getting more violent and anti-social as we get more technologically developed etc Its actually schools and institutions that really got going with the head kicking. Beatings and cruel physical punishments were a strong feature of Roman schools and later the medieval monastic traditions. So Mike, far from thinking that “we” have got it all “worked out”… I think we are in a real mess when it comes to discipline and teaching our children how to be ethical human beings. That is to say I agree with you and would welcome a broader discussion of discipline and children which extends it beyond (way, way beyond) the ridiculous Super Nanny attitudes of today! It seems to me that other societies may have a better idea than we do.

By: Katrina Roe

Katrina Roe — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:18:13 +0000

Mike, thoughtful comments. I’m anti-smacking, from a human rights and human dignity point of view, but wonder if future generations will be appalled at the ‘time-out’ and ‘naughty-chair’ approaches used by our generation. I think perhaps that previous generations, with large families primarily required obedience from their children. Today with smaller families, the emphasis is on consideration. What does smacking produce? A child who does what they’re told or gets hit, but smacking can’t teach a child to act thoughtfully and take responsibility for their actions and decisions.

By: Mike

Mike — Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:11:17 +0000

I think it was a well written piece, I like your quotes and it makes me think…. yet I find it very hard to fully respect arguments which seem to disregard (or at least not acknowledge) hundreds of generations of child raising. I’m not saying that simply because smacking was done in the past or done by many generations it therefore makes it right… but disregarding it on the basis of a few philosophical quotes also seems like arrogance, that we as the most recent generation of humans have worked it all out and know exactly how to live life the right/smartest/best way….. something I am not convinced of as I see increasing antisocial behaviour in our society and wonder if our recent changes to how we look at families is really as “wise” as we think it is… anyway, not strictly disagreeing but rather wanting the argument to possibly consider a wider range of issues….
Thanks for the forum to discuss this.

By: Angry Dad

Angry Dad — Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:55:29 +0000

Yo Krangsquared. When was the last time you saw Hegel on a bumpersticker?? LOL. But again, I can’t help but agree. Sorry if I come over all judgemental. I didn’t mean to be. And I DID say that I have come close to losing it with my own kids. What’s narky about saying that causing your kids to physically suffer is 1. An ethical fail and 2. An offence to their dignity?? Besides being “narky” is what I do! I am Angry Dad. I am very annoyed by most of the child-related BS thats around these days. And lastly, I don’t mind a bit of judgement myself. I think that’s what we’re sorely lacking these days – sound judgment.

By: krangsquared

krangsquared — Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:50:44 +0000

Your bumper sticker sloganeering at the end makes you sound smug and judgmental. Pisses me off, and the little bit in my brain just gets narky and ignores whatever argumentation and Hegel quotes you just pulled out.

It’s easy to judge other people, when you’re off in your happy place. I find it abhorrent, but can also find myself losing it. It’s a struggle, and no amount of blaming your upbringing can let you off the hook, but f* me, it gets really hard.

By: Angry Dad

Angry Dad — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:39:11 +0000

Simone? I’ve ordered the Louise Porter book on Amazon. But couldn’t bring myself to pay the exorbitant quick delivery charges – so it will probably arrive next year… Thanks for the tip. Much appreciated.

By: simone

simone — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:38:16 +0000

Dr Louise Porter’s book “Kids are People Too” outlines how to help children master their own emotions and what to do in the event of epic tantrums. I really recommend it.

By: Angry Dad

Angry Dad — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:06:43 +0000

Fred? Is this one of those IQ lateral thinking questions? Like I’m supposed to guess that you only have three kids or something? I’m confused. Please explain. I often get sucked into those IQ questionnaires and always feel very disappointed in myself. My first guess would be that the kid you spanked numerous times is from a different marriage and not actually your genetic relation? The other four are yours?